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Poster: light into ashes Date: Mar 20, 2009 10:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: odd Dead poll

A strange & random question -

People are always asking 'what's your favorite this & that' -
But what's your least favorite show from your favorite Dead year?
That is, if you're a lover, for example, of '69 or '77, is there a particular show from that year where the Dead seem really off & you'd be happy not to hear again?
Or perhaps you can name a show that everyone else seems to love, but all you hear is futile fumblings....

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Poster: smi2les25 Date: Mar 20, 2009 10:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

I remember cruisin' the panhandle around '66 with my folks... think we were headed to the Japanese Tea Garden for some Crazy Mix. The Pancho Girls will alway be my favorite memory... Soon I was dressed in Flairs, Gurus, and floaters.

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Mar 20, 2009 8:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

Although it's not my very favorite year or anything, it is ONE of my favorite years, 1971. Back in the tape trading snail-mail days I had gotten a copy of 11-7-71 from the Harding Theatre and absolutely loved the show, so I traded for the NEXT show, 11-11-71 in Atlanta. The tape was very high quality recording-wise, one of the best quality tapes I had at the time. The only problem was that it contained the most dull lifeless performance I had heard from what was mostly a well-played year of shows. Other than the sound quality there was nothing about this show that deserved a second listen and I have never revisited it. "Dull" does the show more justice than it deserved, especially coming after the the classic high energy 11-7-71 show.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Mar 20, 2009 11:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

I never listened to 11-11-71 due to the blah setlist, but I remember the Taping Compendium also advised people to skip that one - there were a few shows on that tour where they skipped any kind of a jam, but this show must have about the shortest second set they ever played!

One reviewer suggests why: "I was at the show itself, and it was one of the most unpleasant and disappointing ever. The band was annoyed at the Atlanta cops' overzealous behavior and did the bare minimum to get through the show."

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Mar 20, 2009 12:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

I really love '69 shows, and I never thought I'd turn one off in the middle, until I heard

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1969-04-05.sbd.squirlin.65.sbeok.shnf

The Hard To Handle-Cosmic Charlie...good lord, even the Dead got too fucked up to play sometimes, hard as that is to believe. This has to be the worst Cosmic Charlie ever, bar none.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Mar 20, 2009 1:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

Yeah, '69 has some very uneven shows.....they could be doing some angelic jamming and then suddenly collapse into uncoordinated goofiness. The early Hard to Handles were godawful, it's amazing they stuck with it.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Mar 20, 2009 11:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

This show must be mentioned - the worst of 1969 - and the worst-ever Hard to Handle! Hilarious reviews. Can you handle it?

http://www.archive.org/details/gd69-05-16.sbd.clugston.6316.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Mar 20, 2009 11:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

Listening to the H2H now...wow, that's bad in a whole different way than the show I cited...good call, LIA. Pig usually doesn't forget lyrics, but he's really fumbling on this one...only JG seems to know what he's doing. Once again, the drummers seem to be playing some other song at times... ¿¿¿

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Poster: Single Malt Date: Mar 20, 2009 2:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

I had to listen to the Cosmic Charlie out of curiosity. Holy crap!!! Sounds like they ALL had too much fun before the show- even the drummers.I think "Feedback" is the only keeper.

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Mar 20, 2009 3:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

Single Malt, I've tried to listen to that CC three times now...and I never make it all the way through. Painful!

And LIA: It's true, that same show has a pretty good MOTM/DS at the beginning. Something must have 'happened' at intermission, because they sure come out for the 2nd set with all guns drooping...


This post was modified by Styrofoam Cueball on 2009-03-20 22:26:43

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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Mar 20, 2009 4:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

Interesting Sty. This show is a dr. flashback top 5 for the year. I remember being disappointed after I read the good dr's words and gave it a spin, but it's still a good show, no? 11, TOO, and St Steve are all played pretty well, and I really liked the China Cat and Doin That Rag.

Agree though that the Lovelight, H2H, CC run is not strong.

I give it 4 stars.

My pick is one from early 1987. While the spring tour was outstanding, the Jan Civic run was not. A really bad show

http://www.archive.org/details/gd87-01-28.sbd.leeds.17073.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Mar 21, 2009 5:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Paging William Tell

Did you actually listen to the Mountains> Dark Star?

Some folks are really up on that Avalon show. I mean really up on that one! Paging William Tell...

Personally I prefer 4/6, but that acoustic segue into Dark Star is simultaneously haunting and sublime. I score 4/5/69 pretty high (98 pts). I think if these April Avalon shows were ever officially released, you guys might think differently...

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Mar 21, 2009 10:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Paging William Tell

Actually, as I said, I DID like the MOTM/DS, I always do! In fact, that whole show was about a B+ for me til we got to the sequence of tunes mentioned. If there's good stuff AFTER that CC, I don't know, because I could go no further...

My favorite MOTM/DS transition is the Dream Bowl 2/22/69.

This post was modified by Styrofoam Cueball on 2009-03-21 17:21:03

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 22, 2009 12:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Paging William Tell

I have to admit, I can just "delete" (ie, ignore when rating) songs from shows...EG, my classic is HeyJude...IE, I still rate shows with that tune highly (ie, 2-11-69) even though I would rank ANY HJ as an order of magnitude worse than the worse CC...

And, I think I so expect CC to be done poorly vocally, outside the studio, that I just don't include it in my assessments...

Probably have to re-evaluate 4-5 overall, though, because I ranked it in my top ten for 69, and never "re-evaluated" when new shows and new versions of shows came out, if you follow. EG, it was one of the first shows I ever had with MotM-->DS so it rose to the top for that reason alone...

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Mar 22, 2009 1:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Paging William Tell

That makes sense. And I hear you in FM about "Hey Jude." I was just listening to 3/1/69, and you know I think the world of Mr. McKernan, but, omg....that was just lousy. It was a hard challenge, finding a bad show from a good year, but I tried.

Concerning Cosmic Charlie: Have you heard any of the '76 versions? I know I'm soppy over that year, but I think Donna Jean adds a lot to the harmonies on that song. Check out the June 14th (Beacon Theatre) & June 19th (Capitol Theater & my fave CC) versions for starters... :)

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1976-06-14.set-2.sbd.sirmick.78433.sbeok.flac16

http://www.archive.org/details/gd76-06-19.prefm.unknown.12077.sbeok.shnf

(unfortunately, that second one is clipped on this board. I got mine from the GD Radio Hour, intact....so there must be complete versions out there, and I hope one can be found)

This post was modified by Styrofoam Cueball on 2009-03-22 20:39:22

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 22, 2009 1:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Paging William Tell

Hmmm--now I realize I may have even heard it back in the day! But, will check these out...I do think she helped, like RowJimmy, and the boys certainly needed help...somehow, I have never cut Brent the appropriate slack in that regard, but I think others feel he was a competent singer, and even if you don't like him on his own (I hate him...sorry), you should appreciate his harmonies (I don't...what an ass I can be).

I do like what they did with CC in the early era--the song is great, except for the singing, and sometimes they drop the ball on the energetic intro!

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Mar 22, 2009 2:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Paging William Tell

Yeah, there were lots of good CC's in '69 too, just not the one we was talkin' about...ha ha. I agree with you on Row Jimmy, Donna can be especially good there (and it's one of my favorite songs anyway, so I usually like it when I hear it, except for post-Donna versions). I love it when she gets up high on the "row row ROW, row roooowww..." part.

I gotta agree with you on Brent too (no folks, I'm not WT using a different name to reflect his own opinions, lol). Brent sings in tune, and can do some really high-pitched parts with no problem, but the whiteboy soul shout doesn't move me (and sounds less 'authentic' then Bobby or Jerry's singing, if that makes any sense). The real problem to me abt the harmonies in the Brent era isn't so much his fault, but the fact that the other guys were losing their vocal chops too...IMHO.

The only song I like Brent's singing on is "Hey Pocky Way," because I kind of associate that song with him, although it doesn't sound like one of his own compositions (that's a good thing). I like the song "Just A Little Light" too, but the singing is pretty ugly on it...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 21, 2009 8:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Paging William Tell, elb, JG?

[sorry, can't recall which of you mentioned 2-27?]

Arb and I initially spent quite a bit of time with the 4-5 version, as you note, CLIFF. I do still like that one immensely (ie, just talking MotM-->DS). But, whoever mentioned 2-27 got me to listen to that a bit more, and then the one latter in the month (22). The 27 is pretty nice, really, and some of the others have more of a pause/drop off, which is understandable, but a slight distraction as he picks up the electric...

Have you listened much to the MofM-->CCSun lately on DP 26? Like that one two...just such a great song...About half of the following from setlists has the MotM-->DS trans:

12/20/68- Shrine Auditorium - Los Angeles, CA
01/06/69- Pacific High Recording - San Mateo, CA
01/15/69- Pacific High Recording - San Mateo, CA
02/11/69- Fillmore East - New York City, NY
02/12/69- Fillmore East - New York City, NY
02/15/69- Electric Factory - Philadelphia, PA
02/22/69- Dream Bowl - Vallejo, CA
02/27/69- Fillmore West - San Francisco, CA
03/01/69- Fillmore West - San Francisco, CA
03/11/69- Pacific High Recording - San Mateo, CA
04/05/69- Avalon Ballroom - San Francisco, CA
04/20/69- Clark University - Worcester, MA
04/22/69- The Ark - Boston, MA
04/26/69- Electric Theater - Chicago, IL
06/07/69- Fillmore West - San Francisco, CA
07/10/69- Playboy After Dark - New York City, NY
07/12/69- NY State Pavilion, Flushing Meadow Park - Queens, NY

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Mar 21, 2009 10:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Paging William Tell

Mountains fans who like to compare can also check my handy Mountains guide:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=206934

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Poster: Jeff Gannon Date: Mar 20, 2009 11:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

edgehead, I agree 1000%, I LOVE 1991, way more than I think is "rational", but I've never really liked the 10/31/91 show

One for me would be 5/9/77 - maybe the weakest show from a top-notch year

Can't think of any 73s I don't like...

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Poster: smgarcia Date: Mar 20, 2009 8:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

I do agree that 5/9/77 is overrated, more overrated than 5/8/77 (and 8/27/72) I wouldn't list it as the show from 1977 that I would least want to hear.

It would probably be something in the fall/winter show where the Dead are all smoking crack and heroin and don't sound nearly as good as they did earlier that year.

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Poster: edgehead 2 Date: Mar 20, 2009 11:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

Indeed. I asked a friend to tape me a show one time. I said 'i'm going to this party tonight and i need a real barn-burner of a show' and he have me 5/9. Yawn. We yanked it and played some Dr. Didg instead...

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Mar 20, 2009 5:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

While I don't agree I can see where you are coming from. I actually think the first night is better and perhaps the best show of 91. I think 10-31-91 is a great gig but the Scarlet>fire is pretty lackluster and if you're not digging gary Duncan it can be a bummer

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Poster: Jeff Gannon Date: Mar 20, 2009 5:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

I like 10/27! I just don't like 10/31...it's quite odd, that kinda setlist would normally be my bag

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Poster: Single Malt Date: Mar 20, 2009 12:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

Dallas Reunion Arena Oct, 1988- not exactly my favorite year but for what its worth, this show is pulling 4 1/2 stars on the archive. I was there and I remember walking away thinking it sucked. The rest of the gang thought it was awesome...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd88-10-21.sbd.dodd.16188.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: billydlions Date: Mar 20, 2009 4:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

I seem to remember a Sugar Mags meltdown at this show although the Jack Straw was very good.

I love '82 but have always thought that 7-31-82 was very sloppily played yet most people love this show.

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Poster: Single Malt Date: Mar 21, 2009 4:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

BillyD
I can't believe you mentioned the Sugar Mags meltdown/ false start. For years I've insisted they got through 30-45 seconds of the tune, then Bobby yelled something like "Ok OK- do over!" but I can't find a recording of it.

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Poster: billydlions Date: Mar 21, 2009 10:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

They didn't actually stop the song, but Jerry was correctly playing the "sugar Magnolia" line while Bobby was singing "She's got everything..." line. It totally derailed the song, which kept on going. I also remember them playing happy birthday to Brent and somneone (Brent?) was in a different key. Like I said, the Jack Straw was very strong, but not much else stood out.

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Poster: Single Malt Date: Mar 22, 2009 5:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

Thanks, sir. That must have been it. You have solved my 20+ years of self- induced mystery.

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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Mar 20, 2009 5:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

1982/07/31 - I turned that one off after the Alabama > Promised Land. It didn't sound good.

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Poster: Scrim Date: Mar 20, 2009 12:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

I completely mis-read the question.

Forget I was even here, as you were, nothing to see, move along...

This post was modified by Scrim on 2009-03-20 19:13:10

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Poster: Jeff Gannon Date: Mar 20, 2009 11:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

oh, and another one that sort of fits is 6/4/78...78s not my FAVORITE year, but I do like it a lot, but this show just sounds so shallow/boring. It's like the sonic equivalent of cocaine.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Mar 20, 2009 8:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

I love their 1970 shows, but the 10-31-70 late show struck me as being quite lousy, the Dead on autopilot. Maybe if I heard it again I'd like it more - but the Stonybrook shows are not where to turn for high-class 1970!

It's quite hard to find a bad show in 1968 - there are a couple partial shows though, I wouldn't care to revisit -
In 9-20-68 they quickly abort the Eleven (equipment problems?) and go into a 26-minute drum solo! Not my bag.... Then 12-20-68 has another aborted Eleven, and not much reason to check it out except the first Mountains of the Moon.
Still, it would be nice to hear the rest of these shows, they probably started better than they ended....

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Mar 20, 2009 8:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

Geez, you are absolutely right about that 10-31-70 show LIA! The year 1970 IS my favorite year pretty much, but you are right! That show really sucks IMO, for many reasons. The students ran the sound system and you can hear the band cursing about that. That was also (if memory serves) Vietnam War Moratorium day in America, a national day of protest where people went around wearing black arm bands and driving in the day with their headlights on as a sign of solidarity against the war, and things like that. The Grateful Dead never reacted well when politics became involved on any level, so playing a gig at a political NY university on moratorium day with student radicals running the sound probably did not help the vibe on 10-31-70.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Mar 21, 2009 1:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

for me I like but do not oove the "miracle" shows in 89. In fact I like night 1 better. I'm in the minority on this one.

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Poster: edgehead 2 Date: Mar 20, 2009 11:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: odd Dead poll

I'm gonna get flamed like the Hindenburg for this one but... I truly love 1991 but the Holloween show with Leary and Duncan is a real train wreck to me. The jams don't coalesce and it's all just a big jumble. Folks seem to love that show so i go back and try it again but i just can't stand that show. To each his own i guess. e